tony BEBBINGTON

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tony BEBBINGTON

Postby olly » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:19 pm | #1

i came to this cos my boss s name came up on a search
i would just like to try to contact the person who was asking about him ,
to see what kind of replys / feeback they got good , bad , or indeffence
to help us see how the club is doing

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Postby kempo-kid » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:50 pm | #2

no one had heard of him

KK :twisted:
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Postby Gra » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:46 pm | #3

According to Tony Bebbington's web site, his jujutsu lineage involves 'R. Sacharnoski'


Oikiru-ryu lineage
Professor Olsen(founded 1927)
Dr. R. Sacharnoski(Successor 1973)
Professor William B. Fenner(7th Dan)
R.J.Pagan (7th Dan)
William Parker (6th Dan)
Tony Bebbington (3rd Dan)


If its the same guy, he is very poorly thought of in the MA world, and according to this link, is a fraud.

Oikiru-ryu's roots therfore look a bit dodgy, but its going to be Mr Bebbington's skill in jujutsu and instructing that matters in the here and now.
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Postby Genghis » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:52 pm | #4

Let's face it, who round here cares all that much about anybody's MA lineage or even, by and large, their grade or title!  Most people who frequent PJ are only really interested in somebody's actual martial and teaching ability.

And long may that remain so.

G
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Postby Ronin » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:50 am | #5

problem is that if you claim something that is false/untrue etc then it does call into question other things as well.  What might look like an experience gifted martial artist to a beginner may actually be someone who is not that good.  Most beginners can't tell the difference in competence between a black belt and a orange belt.
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Postby Genghis » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:52 am | #6

Ronin wrote:problem is that if you claim something that is false/untrue etc then it does call into question other things as well.  What might look like an experience gifted martial artist to a beginner may actually be someone who is not that good.  Most beginners can't tell the difference in competence between a black belt and a orange belt.


There are days when I'm not sure whether I can either!

But, it's a fair point - grade and title may be irrelevant, honesty and integrity aren't.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Re: tony BEBBINGTON

Postby Jitsonic » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:19 pm | #7

olly wrote:i came to this cos my boss s name came up on a search
i would just like to try to contact the person who was asking about him ,
to see what kind of replys / feeback they got good , bad , or indeffence
to help us see how the club is doing

                                                    olly


Looks suspiciously like spam to me...
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Postby cullion » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:50 pm | #8

Lineage tells you who somebody was taught by.

There are some extremely skilled people about who nobody much has heard of and aren't paid up members of an official organisation.
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Postby Ronin » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:00 am | #9

cullion wrote:Lineage tells you who somebody was taught by.

There are some extremely skilled people about who nobody much has heard of and aren't paid up members of an official organisation.


That is totally true, however, if those same people claim a false lineage or a lineage that is very dodgy, you then have to question their motivation.
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Postby cullion » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:25 pm | #10

Ronin wrote:
cullion wrote:Lineage tells you who somebody was taught by.

There are some extremely skilled people about who nobody much has heard of and aren't paid up members of an official organisation.


That is totally true, however, if those same people claim a false lineage or a lineage that is very dodgy, you then have to question their motivation.


If somebody claimed a false lineage, then I'd agree. However, it depends what you mean by 'dodgy' lineage.

I used to do Wing Chun, which as you may or may not be aware is notorious for inter-lineage claims of 'your master didn't learn the _real_ wing chun from Yip Man'.

There is one famous Wing Chun teacher who I'm fairly certain lied about his training with Yip Man. However, his organisation does contain some skilled people. They've trained hard, read around the subject, introduced 'aliveness' to their training, worked on physical conditioning etc..

If I wanted to train in Wing Chun again, and there was a teacher of that type of Wing Chun locally who I knew personally to train very hard, include plenty of sparring, research and think about what he did etc.. I would not let it bother me that 2 generations back in his lineage was somebody I thought was a bit of a con artist.
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Postby Nazareth » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:22 pm | #11

Hell, that's why I still turn up at TJF sessions - I personally think our lineage is quite dodgy, but I still enjoy TJF sessions tremendously.
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Postby KroSha » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:54 pm | #12

So which of the previous TJF Sensei do you think were con artists?
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Postby Fluffy_the_happy_lobster » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:16 pm | #13

there is nothing dodgey about the actaul jf lineage...although I would perhaps agree that the representations made about it these days are a tad creative...
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Postby Nazareth » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:13 pm | #14

KroSha - what FTHL said.
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Postby New Jitsu » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:13 pm | #15

I was looking round that e-budo website and there seems to be an unhealthy amount of time spen debating lineage and associations. I completely understand the need to be aware and warn of 'dodgy' schools but unless you actually have trained 1st hand with someone, you don't know what they're like and it would be wrong to criticise. I train in Ju Jitsu for self defence and hence looked for a school that would suit. Tried a few sessions, sat down and talked with the sensei, other instructors and some of the students and made my decision. Extensive research of their lineage wasn't really a factor.
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