Gorbash wrote:JitsuJin wrote:the koryu styles of jujutsu that are practised with an idea to preserve the martial art in the form it was practised centuries ago, including all the techniques that are no longer applicable (unless you have a fight with a nutter in samurai armour)
Interesting... is this your opinion of what you believe koryu to be or is it an actual fact?
I find the term re-enactment perplexing
is koryu training really play acting or are the individuals who choose a koryu way training and developing skills much like those in modern combat arts.
Read rne02s' post. I do believe however that if there exists in a martial art, things which do not directly serve some practical function (and not merely historical/nostalgic value) that there should be a point at which it can no longer be called a martial art. Not that I doubt a selection of techniques found in koryu jujutsu styles will be useful for the modern day, it just appears that much of it isn't in some cases. Again I refer you to rne02s' post, he/she is obviously concerned with the pragmaticism and applicability of what they are learning for a real life situation, so obviously there are people who train in koryu with an idea to train for effective self defense. Whether rne02 was aware of the differences between koryu jujitsu and non traditional jujitsu when they took it up, or whether they even knew why to care about those differences, I'm not sure. Again, everyone has different reasons for training.
"Historical reenactment is an activity in which participants recreate some aspects of a historical event or period. It may be a narrowly-defined time period, such as a specific war or other event, or it may be more broadly defined. " - there ya go
JitsuJin wrote:another more specific example might be the use of Japenese terms to describe techniques. In this case the "finger" would be the fact that the terms are in Japanese. The terms were only in the native language of those learning jujitsu at the time. I doubt they would have found much value in referring to them in a foreign language. So why do we?
Gorbash wrote:are you saying it's wrong to use japanese terms in the UK for Budo.
I dont have any problems with Japanese based arts that choose to use or not use japanese terms i see pros and cons either way.
Wrong is not a word I have used, and for good reason. Of course, the choice to use japanese or english terms has no bearing on the efficacy of the system in question. It just makes things a little simpler/more complicated. For example recently we learned the sweeping loin throw. Sensei told us it was just an extension of the hip throw. If he had said "ok class, now we're going to learn harai goshi, its just an extension of the hip throw" I'd have that much less information to go on, simply because my english is better than my japanese due to me living in this part of the world. That said I'm pretty sure you could rename all of the techniques allocating a series of high pitched squeeks and squeels to each of them and learn them just as well. Or even name them after dead actors of the 1940s. Though you may still end up going "Ok, now we're going to do a throw called the Mickey Rooney. Its an extension of the hip throw where you sweep the loin with your leg. Don't ask me why its not called the sweep the loin, or loin sweep or sweeping loin." Of course there are also some pros, though whether they are equal to the cons is something to consider.
JitsuJin wrote:Many little things, though at the end of the day I think you'd be hard pressed in 2011 to find an entire jujitsu class full of people studying it with only effective self defense in mind. For many now its a social thing, some do it because they love the tradition aspect, and of course some just want to be able to defend themselves. For many it may be a mix of all these and more. The important thing (it has been said) is that you enjoy it whatever your reasons*.
Gorbash wrote:what's the point you're trying to get across?
are you saying people are training for the wrong reasons?
My point here is that, while I'm harping on about copying ancient practises step for step not being in the "spirit of jujitsu", as the world has changed, so have the people. People now learn martial arts for more than just the reason which the idea was initially conceived. Again, I didnt use the word "wrong", because I couldnt' possibly have. When people aim to get a million and one different things out of martial arts, I couldnt very well tell them they're doing ma for the "wrong" reasons. If it gets you fit and out the house, great! If it gives you confidence and takes you out of your shell, awesome! If it simply gives you something to do, then fantastic! This is why its different learning jujitsu now than it was back then. Back then your life may have depended on it. Now, the same applies to a much lower percentage of people who take it up. I think its safe to say that the majority of people who take up martial arts today, do so on the grounds that they think they would enjoy it.
