Aikijujutsu!

Have a jitsu related question? Get a jitsu related answer here.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby Jitsonic » Sat May 12, 2012 11:47 pm | #61

A second Dan says to you 'Oi don't hurt me' when you try to apply a perfectly valid technique, then tries to get his own back with a thumb wrench...
:roll:
Toys out of the pram or what?

Dude don't let people like that get you down.
Jitsonic
Guest
Guest
 

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby nry » Sun May 13, 2012 3:48 pm | #62

Politics and personalities exist in any style, it seems you have found one where you are now :)  Hurt them more next time or ignore them - I'd go with the latter myself :)
User avatar
nry Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Carlisle
Karma: 9

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby JitsuJin » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:01 pm | #63

Ooookay... after a short hiatus due to starting a new job, I returned for whatever number session I'm up to now.

On my return I was struck with the realisation that everything seemed easier than it was when I last trained. Everything just seemed to make sense and feel "logical". Initially I considered that it may just be a subjective experience, but I had a few people (some of which I hadn't trained with before, and some that I had) ask me what grade I was, how long I'd been training, and if I train in any other styles. The first question could be taken either way, as I wear hakama my belt isn't visible though I'm clearly not yudansha.

This session we worked on a vast number of irimi nages which drilled many core concepts of our style, the concept of "gakku daiyo" or complimentary opposites (large movements combined with smaller subtler movements), and being "like a duck". The duck thing is about letting your lower body do all the work while your upper half is perfectly calm and giving nothing away. I thought it was quite funny, but a good analogy for our style.

While practising one of the other techniques of that session, I was made acutely aware of the importance of timing. I'd say reminded, but its definitely a more acute awareness. My technique simply would not work unless I intercepted at the right moment. There were a few other moments like that this session that I'm thankful for. These finer points are essentially why I'm studying this style.

Something else that was rather interesting at this session was that, I seem to have reached a point where I can defend against attacks intuitively using Aikijujutsu. I realised this when I kept on doing the wrong technique and could apparantly interchange between various techniques. I think in my time off I've managed to internalise some of what I've previously learned. At least I hope I have.

At the end of the session I witnessed another grading and learned that I've been due mine for a while, which will take place within the next few sessions or so.
Last edited by JitsuJin on Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JitsuJin Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Karma: 3

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby nry » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:42 pm | #64

Bring on the grading :)

I recall a similar thing with internalisation (now I know what it is!) from my TJF days.  You'd go home for 2 months over summer and come back seemingly better than before you left even with 2 months off the mat, I always found it strange!

I further get the timing thing - I think this matters less if you are waiting to act on the full movement of the attack, but if you are wanting to intercept the movement earlier, then your timing has to be bang on, 100% bang on.  We need to do some random work though, as the little we've done did seem to be as you describe, finding techniques was strangely easy, but 1.5 hours on this was just the beginning.

Any idea what grade they're looking at you going for?
User avatar
nry Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Carlisle
Karma: 9

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby JitsuJin » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:16 pm | #65

nry wrote:Bring on the grading :)

I recall a similar thing with internalisation (now I know what it is!) from my TJF days.  You'd go home for 2 months over summer and come back seemingly better than before you left even with 2 months off the mat, I always found it strange!

I further get the timing thing - I think this matters less if you are waiting to act on the full movement of the attack, but if you are wanting to intercept the movement earlier, then your timing has to be bang on, 100% bang on.  We need to do some random work though, as the little we've done did seem to be as you describe, finding techniques was strangely easy, but 1.5 hours on this was just the beginning.

Any idea what grade they're looking at you going for?


It is a strange feeling indeed, but a welcome one. As for the grade, well seeing as I'm not bringing much over from my other style other than superior breakfalls and about 18 months experience of a slightly different koto gaeshi, I've had a lot to learn to get to where I am now. I'll be going for 5th Kyu (where we start) I think. That said, it will be a shorter time to first grading than is normal.

Another thing we focused on was "choku", which is the sinking motion. We use choku with many techniques including our koto gaeshi. I have a copy of our complete syllabus now, as well as a dvd of our founder demonstrating some of the core techniques (albeit in Japanese thats beyond my comprehension level).

------

Stop Press!

While typing this response I took a look at the syllabus and actually, I have some work to do. Especially on Ikyo, and I don't even remember Yonkyo or Kaitenage... crap. Off to watch the dvd
JitsuJin Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Karma: 3

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby JitsuJin » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:16 pm | #66

Day 47 in the Big Brother house...

I didn't post straight after the session before last as I was still absorbing much of what happened that session. In a nutshell, I finally "nailed" ikkyo. It looks only slightly tricky, but in actuality this technique has been the bane of my Aikijujutsu life since I first tried it, maybe in my first or second session. For training we usually did it from a wrist grab though obviously it's just to get the principles down. My problem had always been that the technique required completely relaxed arms which would rise upward as if raising a sword, while pushing (but not "pushing" as I was corrected on this countless times) the attackers arm/elbow straight up towards their head and stepping through twice. All arm movements had to be synched with the feet, and the specific tai sabaki (ski ashi) used requires a straight forward angle, and then around 45 degrees to the left stepping "through" the attacker (while still synching hands and feet), before following through with one last step and a kind of downward cutting motion we do with the bokken, remembering to keep their arm at a certain angle. And all as one fluid motion of course. Anyway... my problem was solved when a nice Dan grade I was training with told me to focus on the footwork. Hey presto, Ikkyo.

We also worked on nikyo in a similar way that made it look very much like Ikkyo, but my mind was well and truly focused on Ikkyo from the point of working on the technique, for the rest of the session and indeed the day. Productive session.
Last edited by JitsuJin on Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JitsuJin Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Karma: 3

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby JitsuJin » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:15 pm | #67

Day 62 in the Big Brother house...

Riding high on the wave of confidence that finally "nailing" Ikkyo gave me, I started todays session with much enthusiasm (at least in spirit. We wouldn't want anymore crying 40 year olds now would we). As time goes on with these sessions I'm coming to the realisation that this thread will mostly be about how my experience and perception changes over time, as opposed to the new and amazing techniques I learn. The techniques are there, yes, but there is such a depth to the theoretical underpinnings of this style that I feel the more interesting revelations will be of an intellectual or experiential nature.

This idea is exemplified by my most recent experiences. Today we started with the usual warm up, bokto work, and breakfalls, but we then broke out the jo staffs and were shown what I would call a movement, from the jo staff kata. It was simple enough and gave me no trouble. What it did do though, was illustrate the interconnectedness of the hands and the feet in a way I'd not previously noticed. Follwing this there were more jo staff techniques.

So following on from this we worked on some basic techniques and some slightly less basic techniques. Throughout the session everything seemed to just be "clicking" because all my techniques were ok. Everything seemed to be coming together as I was clutching onto this fragment or slightly less hazy image of just what it is I'm supposed to be doing in Aikijujitsu. All from the jo staff work and learning on a deeper experiential level the key element of hands and feet being connected and moving as one during all techniques. Much like people having Cognitive Behavioural Therapy for maladaptive thinking patterns, the things I learn from direct experience in Aikijujitsu or anything else for that matter, I seem to learn on a much deeper and more intuitive level, which sticks. I've been told a million and one things in Aikijujitsu, and many of them I've remembered and I make a conscious effort to act on them. This "revelation" with the hands and feet feels nothing like that, and I don't think I could forget it if I tried.

We were shown one rather flash looking Ikkyo from a knife attack which was similar to something I'd learned in jujitsu, as well as another knife defense that was even more familiar. The main differences being the footwork, so fortunately I was able to spend that time mainly focusing on the footwork.

Ok, so after a few techniques we're all lined up in seiza as usual, waiting to hear what we're doing next, and I get called up to demonstrate Ikkyo. HA! Remember how awesomely I "nailed" it? Well on my first attempt in front of the whole class my mind was still in nage mode and so my poor uke didn't have a clue what was going on with the second half of the technique. After performing the technique gradually better and better as I remembered just what the hell this awesome technique I nailed was supposed to look like. Then it was Nikkyo. Now... nikkyo we did last session, but it was a complicated Nikkyo, so what I actually did was the wrist lock I learned at Jujitsu, the one that is actually Ikkyo (I just forgot to move off center for this style). In a nutshell I was crap.

At the end of the session I was told pretty much this, but that under pressure it can and does happen. There seemed to be some confusion too as my techniques during the sessions are ok (his words, not mine, ha). And on that basis I was awarded 5th kyu. I find it strangely fitting that I was awarded this at this particular time as I feel that my understanding and perception of the style have shifted somewhat. Now whether or not I feel like I am 5th Kyu standard is a strange question, as I've only been at the club a couple of months if that. During the sessions I am easily comparible to other Yellow belts, especially now with my "revelation". At the end of the day, the Sensei know what they want at each level.

Before the grading, I wasn't particularly excited about the grading for its own sake. This is due to wanting to get better, feeling that belt chasing isn't the best route, and knowing that belt chasing is practically impossible at this club unless... well unless you're just training to improve, and regularly at that. But then that wouldn't be belt chasing. Anyway I digress, I saw little significance. However, after being awarded the 5th Kyu, I was told something that made me think. It was "Now you have to try a lot harder". It was said in jest, but the other Head Sensei chimed in in agreement, indicating that more is now expected of me. The idea of having an increased responsibility to be "better" and try harder wasn't something that had ever crossed my mind. Take from that what you will, but I'd always seen training as just trying to improve, and reasoning that naturally you would become better and try harder as you progressed. At my jujitsu club I do feel I have this responsibility already, with there being so many new low grades that at times I can be considered a high grade (was refered to as such by Sensei). I hadn't considered this with my Aikijujitsu club and being at such a low grade, but I suppose it makes sense (interesting point, I'm actually 5th kyu in both styles, the difference being that my jujitsu club starts with 7th kyu as the first grading).

All in all an eventful couple of sessions. Looks like I can hang up the white belt for a little while too :-)
Last edited by JitsuJin on Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
JitsuJin Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Karma: 3

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby nry » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:20 am | #68

I love this thread :)

The links across the entire set of 'techniques' is something I don't ever recall finding in previous training - not sure whether I just hadn't got there yet or not...in Motoha the links are obvious and once you begin to see them it does, as you say, allow them to be remembered and applied much more easily.

There is frequent mention that the weapon work within the style is 100% linked to the non-weapon work.  I think I'm right in saying that the suggestion was how everything is geared towards use of the short staff (jo?), and that all techniques taught can be done with or without it...

I still concur completely on the deeper levels of learning, each time I think something is working well there's an extra lttle tidbit that makes it work better, more 'realistic' on all levels of the technique from movement, timing, posture etc.  I guess what is interesting is that your style has strong similarities on many levels with what I know of koryu through Motoha, the older stuff across many 'styles' of MA appears closely related, more so than I've found in more modern styles anyhow.
User avatar
nry Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Carlisle
Karma: 9

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby JitsuJin » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:42 pm | #69

nry wrote:I love this thread :)


Thanks for the compliment. As well as it being a useful tool for me to reflect on my experiences, I hope that other people get something out of it too.

nry wrote:The links across the entire set of 'techniques' is something I don't ever recall finding in previous training - not sure whether I just hadn't got there yet or not...in Motoha the links are obvious and once you begin to see them it does, as you say, allow them to be remembered and applied much more easily.


This is something that, now I've experienced, is surely something that will be conspicious by its absence in any other style I happen to train in that doesn't feature this. Almost one of those, once you see it you can't un-see it, type things. I'll definitely be searching for logical ways to move, or the appropriate tai sabaki when I go back to my Jujitsu club (just to clarify, they don't have tai sabaki or pay any real attention to footwork beyond the basic boxing/karate influenced stance). I forsee compartmentalisation becoming a major issue because of this. Things that now make sense to me on an intuitive level, are what I now naturally want to do in given situation, and they are Aikijujutsu principles/techniques.

nry wrote:There is frequent mention that the weapon work within the style is 100% linked to the non-weapon work.  I think I'm right in saying that the suggestion was how everything is geared towards use of the short staff (jo?), and that all techniques taught can be done with or without it...


This is the case with our style, though its primarily sword based, with some jo (short staff) stuff too. Rather than the techniques being geared towards use of a weapon in our style, it seems instead that the movements within the sword work just happen to be very well suited to unarmed defense. Due to this, everything from our footwork to how we move our arms, seems to literally be sword technique without the sword. At least all of the footwork, and a big chunk of what we do with our arms. In fact, I'm going to be doing a lot more bokto work (read: some) at home between sessions.

nry wrote:I still concur completely on the deeper levels of learning, each time I think something is working well there's an extra lttle tidbit that makes it work better, more 'realistic' on all levels of the technique from movement, timing, posture etc.  I guess what is interesting is that your style has strong similarities on many levels with what I know of koryu through Motoha, the older stuff across many 'styles' of MA appears closely related, more so than I've found in more modern styles anyhow.


I know that feeling, and after the grading Sensei actually said "you have a lot to learn but we'll get there", and it's very true. While my technique sufficiently resembles what it's supposed to be for my level, there are seemingly near infinite pointers that would make it more effective. Nearly every time we do same technique I hear another point or three that I should consider, and each one is a mini revelation. Or a big one, often a big one. The similarities you mention are likely due to our founder studying several koryu styles of (where applicable) Aikido, Jujitsu, Judo, karate etc over the past 60 years or so. Our style isn't old, but its very traditional as you've seen.
JitsuJin Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Karma: 3

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby nry » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:55 pm | #70

There's always something to learn :)  Remind me of the grade(s) you hold in your other style(s)?
User avatar
nry Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Carlisle
Karma: 9

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby JitsuJin » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:40 pm | #71

nry wrote:There's always something to learn :)  Remind me of the grade(s) you hold in your other style(s)?


5th kyu Jujitsu (third grading)
5th kyu Aikijujutsu (first grading)
Green Sash Wing Chun (first grading at that particular club and a very long time ago)

I'm very much a noob. Why do you ask? :)
JitsuJin Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Karma: 3

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby nry » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:03 am | #72

I was just curious :)
User avatar
nry Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Carlisle
Karma: 9

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby JitsuJin » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:04 pm | #73

Jitsonic wrote:A second Dan says to you 'Oi don't hurt me' when you try to apply a perfectly valid technique, then tries to get his own back with a thumb wrench...
:roll:
Toys out of the pram or what?

Dude don't let people like that get you down.


Before I continue with the thread, I'd just like to provide a quick update on that. It turns out that this opinion is shared by others. I was actually warned about him (and smoeone else) recently. He was described as a "bit of an arsehole". I wouldn't say a bit, I'd say he was an arse. Whole. Still, it was interesting. Anyhoo, on with the show...
JitsuJin Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Karma: 3

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby nry » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:53 pm | #74

There's always one, sometimes they can be 'removed' pleasantly, other times you have to 'live with them' :)
User avatar
nry Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Carlisle
Karma: 9

Re: Aikijujutsu!

Postby BrassMan » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:56 pm | #75

They seem to be a risk of the hobby, but you don't have to work with them. It's the chief instructors business, although by second dan the arrogance has probably set in and dismissing him from the club could be tricky.
"We do PRECISION GUESSWORK based on vague assumptions and unreliable data of dubious accuracy provided by persons of questionable intellectual capacity."
User avatar
BrassMan None specified
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Karma: 5

PreviousNext

Return to General Jitsu Discussions

Signup

cron