Weapon Attacks

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Weapon Attacks

Postby rne02 » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:21 pm | #1

I am wondering if anyone else has had similar problems when training with weapons?  Well, not exactly the weapons as such, the problem is with the attacker.  Some of my fellow students, and one in particular, seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of hitting me over the head with a stick.  

When ever they attack me with a downward (overhand) blow to the top of the head with a stick, the point of impact is always the point at which their hand is holding the base of the stick, and not the end of the stick.  I continually try to explain to they should be hitting me with the stick, and with one particularly awkward fellow student went so far as to ask him why would he hit me on the head with his first when he was holding a stick?  It still didn’t sink in.

Now normally I wouldn’t mind, if they can’t attack people properly then that’s there problem, the problem is it is effecting me as it is throwing out my distance (we also practice the same attack with no weapon and it (is supposed to) require a change in distance when defending due to the closer proximity of the attacker).

Has anyone else encountered similar problems, and if so how did you manage to sort them (short of beating the guy over the head with the stick until they understand) ;-)
Last edited by rne02 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If you can't do it with a fag or a shot glass in your other hand, it's not a proper judo hold.
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby jitsukerr » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:48 pm | #2

It's a common problem.  One way to overcome it is to make sure you attack them with the full length when it's their turn to defend.  Or subtly increase the attacking distance each repetition.
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby Goober » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:13 pm | #3

I think part of the problem (and it is generically a problem with TJF lower grades attacking) is a lack of understanding from both Tori and Uki on what an appropriate attacking range is. You see people standing well outside punching distance before they try to punch (resulting in overbalanced lunge punches) and people standing in roughly the same position for a cosh attack (resulting in essentially the same attack as when unarmed, just with a bit of wood in their fist)

Unfortunately it is really REALLY rare to ever see anyone teach people how to punch, anything about fighting ranges, or how to attack with weapons, especially appropriate ranges for using weapons.
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby rne02 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:40 am | #4

Thanks guys :)
If you can't do it with a fag or a shot glass in your other hand, it's not a proper judo hold.
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby nz_ROB » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:07 am | #5

rne02 wrote:I am wondering if anyone else has had similar problems when training with weapons?  Well, not exactly the weapons as such, the problem is with the attacker.  Some of my fellow students, and one in particular, seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of hitting me over the head with a stick.  

When ever they attack me with a downward (overhand) blow to the top of the head with a stick, the point of impact is always the point at which their hand is holding the base of the stick, and not the end of the stick.  I continually try to explain to they should be hitting me with the stick, and with one particularly awkward fellow student went so far as to ask him why would he hit me on the head with his first when he was holding a stick?  It still didn’t sink in.

Now normally I wouldn’t mind, if they can’t attack people properly then that’s there problem, the problem is it is effecting me as it is throwing out my distance (we also practice the same attack with no weapon and it (is supposed to) require a change in distance when defending due to the closer proximity of the attacker).

Has anyone else encountered similar problems, and if so how did you manage to sort them (short of beating the guy over the head with the stick until they understand) ;-)
Are they attacking with the butt of the stick or the "long-end" of the stick because either weapon requires a different range ... there are a hundred and one drills you can train in for effective range and distance.

If it's the long end of the stick you are training to strike with try holding up another stick and getting your opponent to strike the tip with their tip - develops accuracy and distancing ...
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby rne02 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:25 am | #6

nz_ROB wrote:Are they attacking with the butt of the stick or the "long-end" of the stick because either weapon requires a different range ... there are a hundred and one drills you can train in for effective range and distance.

If it's the long end of the stick you are training to strike with try holding up another stick and getting your opponent to strike the tip with their tip - develops accuracy and distancing ...

The point of contact is the butt of the stick (i.e. the end they are holding onto), but they are supposed to be striking with the other end (the end they are not holding).  I like the idea of me holding up another stick, will try that, cheers.
If you can't do it with a fag or a shot glass in your other hand, it's not a proper judo hold.
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby nz_ROB » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:40 am | #7

Oh, okay .. well there are a number of targeting exercises you can do - depending on the type of strike you are actually training. I''ll assume you are training a simple "slash" with the long end of the stick ...

a/ no 1 holds their stick at 45 degrees upwards from their belt-line - no 2 strikes in a downward X pattern onto the tip of no 1 with the tip of their stick .. eventually you can advance from this rigidity

b/ no 1 holds their stick at 45 degrees downwards from the chest line - no 2 strikes with an upwards figure 8 pattern

The focus in both of these exercises is to get the "striker" to hit with the last inch of their weapon on to the target.

This may help you with getting the distance and zoning right for the exercise you are trying to do. PM me if you want any further tips - happy to help.
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby Bulk » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:04 pm | #8

potentially off topic but ...
whilst a good training aid  i.e use nice extended arm and stick with the final far end of stick being the focus for the strike, i feel that if i were really using the stick to stike it is a much closer stike - almost cutting through with the stick like it was a short sword so the point of impact is still the far end but but the arm is closer to the body and lower. i think escrima style stikes are also from a similar lower arm position. makes getting in close to defend from more difficult especially from the inside.
I supose the point i am making is its down to expaining to tori why the nescity of a certian type of strike to practice a certain move even if the strilke they are doiung is not one they would necesaariuly use....
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby rne02 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:29 am | #9

nz_ROB wrote:try holding up another stick and getting your opponent to strike the tip with their tip - develops accuracy and distancing ...

Was able to try this last night, it worked a treat.  Thanks Rob :-)
If you can't do it with a fag or a shot glass in your other hand, it's not a proper judo hold.
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby nz_ROB » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:19 am | #10

rne02 wrote:
nz_ROB wrote:try holding up another stick and getting your opponent to strike the tip with their tip - develops accuracy and distancing ...

Was able to try this last night, it worked a treat.  Thanks Rob :-)
You are very welcome .. happy to help  :)
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Re: Weapon Attacks

Postby rne02 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:48 pm | #11

Unfortunately this problem has returned to haunt me.  However, as it is with the same student I have decided that the problem is with my fellow student rather than my methods of explanation.  

(This may seem a rather egotistical deduction, which it is not meant to be.  But having taken a different student through their grade last week, they told me after the lesson that I was a good teacher and had explaned everything very well.  Considering that English is not that persons first language, I can't be that bad.   :wink:   )

I have noticed that he never takes note of anything I say, when correcting any techniques.  I cannot decide if he has deiceded to ignore all help I give becasue I don't have a black belt, or if he one of those people who walks out the door and doesn't think about JJ until he walks in the door for the next lesson, by which time he has forgotten all that was taught the previous lesson.

Either way I have decided that in future I won't waste my breath.  I will simply train with him when instructed to do so, and allow him to continue to perform techniques incorrectly.
If you can't do it with a fag or a shot glass in your other hand, it's not a proper judo hold.
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