Naming protocols

Techniques and their names

Discussion on anything to do with training, techniques, etiquette, philosophy etc..

Moderator: Moderators

Naming protocols

Postby nz_ROB » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:44 am | #1

How important is naming a technique to you? Do you insist in the Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Filipino, etc etc title for the technique being used? Do you have pet names for techniques - like the "pick-a-window-throw"? Is it as important or just consequential to have learnt the name of a technique under the correct protocol using a certain language?
nz_ROB
Guest
Guest
 

Re: Naming protocols

Postby Genghis » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:35 pm | #2

I think that being able to name techniques is important, with a common terminology within the club - without that learning is badly hampered since you can only show, not talk about techniques.  What names you use doesn't really matter within the club, so long as people are consistent.

However, standardisation is very useful at seminars, gradings or when training with other clubs - it allows an instructor to ask for the same technique from everybody, and can help a lot in improving the talking:doing ratio.  So, I'm in favour of standardisation to a reasonable degree, so long as it doesn't interfere with individual clubs and instructors abilities to experiment and vary/improve techniques.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
User avatar
Genghis None specified
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Dunno, what does that little box say?
Karma: 32

Re: Naming protocols

Postby Blackbelt007 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:09 pm | #3

I think knowing the names is part of the jitsuka's education. It helps in so many ways from the sharing of ideas to understanding other techniques. I cross train in jitsu, judo and aikido and knowing my techniques by their japanes names help me tie them all in together and understand them. Without the names they are just numerous techniques, with names I can categories them easily.
Keep passing the open windows!
User avatar
Blackbelt007 Male
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Norfolk UK
Karma: 5

Re: Naming protocols

Postby Goober » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:56 am | #4

Genghis wrote:I think that being able to name techniques is important, with a common terminology within the club - without that learning is badly hampered since you can only show, not talk about techniques.  What names you use doesn't really matter within the club, so long as people are consistent.

However, standardisation is very useful at seminars, gradings or when training with other clubs - it allows an instructor to ask for the same technique from everybody, and can help a lot in improving the talking:doing ratio.  So, I'm in favour of standardisation to a reasonable degree, so long as it doesn't interfere with individual clubs and instructors abilities to experiment and vary/improve techniques.

G


Replace the word "club" with "organisation" or "Style" and I'd agree with you emphatically.
Define irony -
People paying hundreds of pounds a year to get punched in the face, shouted at, thrown to the floor and have their joints locked up, in order to learn how to not get mugged.
User avatar
Goober None specified
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Loughborough
Karma: 5

Re: Naming protocols

Postby Genghis » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:15 pm | #5

Goober wrote:
Genghis wrote:I think that being able to name techniques is important, with a common terminology within the club - without that learning is badly hampered since you can only show, not talk about techniques.  What names you use doesn't really matter within the club, so long as people are consistent.

However, standardisation is very useful at seminars, gradings or when training with other clubs - it allows an instructor to ask for the same technique from everybody, and can help a lot in improving the talking:doing ratio.  So, I'm in favour of standardisation to a reasonable degree, so long as it doesn't interfere with individual clubs and instructors abilities to experiment and vary/improve techniques.

G


Replace the word "club" with "organisation" or "Style" and I'd agree with you emphatically.


Style certainly, some organisations have multiples styles within them.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
User avatar
Genghis None specified
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Dunno, what does that little box say?
Karma: 32

Re: Naming protocols

Postby Goober » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:34 am | #6

But you could argue that those organisations would be better off standardising the names of techniques, no?
Define irony -
People paying hundreds of pounds a year to get punched in the face, shouted at, thrown to the floor and have their joints locked up, in order to learn how to not get mugged.
User avatar
Goober None specified
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Loughborough
Karma: 5

Re: Naming protocols

Postby Nazareth » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:03 am | #7

"We do not stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing."
George Bernard Shaw

"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Albert Einstein
Nazareth Male
Tumbleweed
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 

Re: Naming protocols

Postby captaintau » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:32 pm | #8

nz_ROB wrote:How important is naming a technique to you?

Fairly important, but just for the reasons already stated. Very often, naming the technique enables students to understand it better.


nz_ROB wrote: Do you insist in the Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Filipino, etc etc title for the technique being used?

No. I do use them but certainly don't insist on them. It's useful to know. The concern, of course, is that the over-use of an alternative language impedes learning. I was always told that knowing the Japanese (for example) enabled you to communicate should be learning in another country. Whereas this is a fair point I'm not sure it's really that important in today's world.


nz_ROB wrote:Do you have pet names for techniques

The broken four quarters double underhook sacrifice throw (and associated spine lock) is known to use as the "hell crucifix" or the "Williams Throw". Incidentally, somewhere I do have the correct Japanese for this throw.


nz_ROB wrote:Is it as important or just consequential to have learnt the name of a technique under the correct protocol using a certain language?

At times it's useful. Though modern paradigm shifts in Martial understanding would suggest that the Japanese names are highly flawed and therefore the name is actually awkward. For example, those of us that multi-style train may be familiar with Gedan Barai. These days we see this as an armlock, not a block.
User avatar
captaintau Male
Genre Definer
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Worcester
Karma: 41

Re: Naming protocols

Postby Genghis » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:54 pm | #9

Goober wrote:But you could argue that those organisations would be better off standardising the names of techniques, no?


Not necessarily.

For example let's take a hypothetical organisation that has Aikido, Jiu Jitsu and Eskrima Syllabi.  Each of those styles has a defined and very similar arm bar technique with a standard name - to standardise it (except in English for cross-reference) across the three syllabi would probably cause more trouble than it solves.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
User avatar
Genghis None specified
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Dunno, what does that little box say?
Karma: 32

Re: Naming protocols

Postby Genghis » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:55 pm | #10

I was once asked to teach a session in Switzerland.  My Switzer-Deutsch is crap, as was their English.  Japanese was our friend!

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
User avatar
Genghis None specified
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Location: Dunno, what does that little box say?
Karma: 32


Return to Technical Jiu Jitsu

Signup

cron