Top 5 throws

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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby PointyShinyBurning » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:47 pm | #16

Genghis wrote:Nazareth:
Drop Knee Ippon Seoi Nage

Doesn't that make it soto uchi makikomi ?

G
Soto makkikomi and uchi makkikomi are different throws, drop seio nage might sometimes shade into the latter depending on exactly how you finish, though more often it's actually seio-otoshi in the terminology of Judo pedantry.
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby PointyShinyBurning » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:48 pm | #17

captaintau wrote:Can you have "soto uchi" as surely that's a contradiction?
Indeed... '"inner outer"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rve5lNjc1Fk
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby captaintau » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:39 am | #18

PointyShinyBurning wrote:
captaintau wrote:Can you have "soto uchi" as surely that's a contradiction?
Indeed... '"inner outer"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rve5lNjc1Fk

I caught Uchimata Makikomi, but not Soto Uchi Makikomi
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby PointyShinyBurning » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:17 pm | #19

captaintau wrote:
PointyShinyBurning wrote:
captaintau wrote:Can you have "soto uchi" as surely that's a contradiction?
Indeed... '"inner outer"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rve5lNjc1Fk

I caught Uchimata Makikomi, but not Soto Uchi Makikomi
The video show uchi makkikomi and soto makkikomi, for the purposes of telling them apart, was my point.
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby captaintau » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:24 pm | #20

PointyShinyBurning wrote:The video show uchi makkikomi and soto makkikomi, for the purposes of telling them apart, was my point.

Oh yeah, I understand that. My point (and I welcome being educated, I'm not arguing) is that can you have "Uchi Soto" anything they're a contradiction? Like "O Ko soto gari" - greater lesser outer reap.
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby PointyShinyBurning » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:29 pm | #21

captaintau wrote:[
Oh yeah, I understand that. My point (and I welcome being educated, I'm not arguing) is that can you have "Uchi Soto" anything they're a contradiction? Like "O Ko soto gari" - greater lesser outer reap.
Exactly, I was agreeing with you!
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby nz_ROB » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:18 am | #22

Kata Garuma not a main player then?
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby Hirsty » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:40 am | #23

I was debating puting shoulder wheel on my list but opted for suplex at the last moment as I am slightly more successful with it.
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby Urban Fisherman » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:51 pm | #24

Several people have included double leg takedown, but I can't see that anyone's included single leg takedown. Your opponent trying to avoid a double leg takedown can make a single leg easier, so I'd include both.

I'd also include variants of both single and double leg takedowns from the cage, there's enough difference in set up and execution for them to be different throws and they're very useful for cage fighting. I believe they'd work pretty well off many vertical surfaces so may well be worth training for those people not just interested in cage fighting: they have the considerable advantage that they give you a surface to pin your opponent against and can change a 50:50 position to a much stronger position if you know what you're doing.
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby rne02 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:58 pm | #25

O Soto Gari seems to be quite popular, but like most throws I could see that someone's natural reaction, once you take them off balance or lift them, would be to grab onto you, and so you may end up getting pulled own with them once they are thrown.

Has anyone pulled this throw off in a defence situation, and can shed light on whether or not this is likely to happen?
If you can't do it with a fag or a shot glass in your other hand, it's not a proper judo hold.
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby Genghis » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:13 pm | #26

I'm happy to say that I've never really been in a true self defence situation.

However, I have regularly tried to execute O Soto Gari against an aggressively resisting opponent.  I have learned several lessons from this (in addition to lots more about how to do the technique well):

(1) Maintain an upright stance.  Lean over, they'll pull you down - stay upright, they shouldn't.

(2) Don't do these Judo style one-legged sweeps.  Standing on one leg whilst dropping somebody close to you is just asking for trouble.  Wrap calf around calf with a bent knee and the toes only in contact with the ground, so that the sweep is effected by straightening tori's leg, not by sweeping.  This makes for a slightly less effective throw, but you are much less likely to follow your uke to the floor (which of-course doesn't matter in Judo if you just executed an Ippon, but does matter in a self defence context).

(3) Get uke's chin up, because where the head goes, the body will follow and they are less likely to hold on.

G
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby OneDragons » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:40 pm | #27

Sounds like what Judo call osoto otoshi. Its taught before osoto gari. Good technique but less powerfull than the gari version.
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby rne02 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:26 pm | #28

Genghis wrote:(2) Don't do these Judo style one-legged sweeps.  Standing on one leg whilst dropping somebody close to you is just asking for trouble.  Wrap calf around calf with a bent knee and the toes only in contact with the ground, so that the sweep is effected by straightening tori's leg, not by sweeping.  This makes for a slightly less effective throw, but you are much less likely to follow your uke to the floor (which of-course doesn't matter in Judo if you just executed an Ippon, but does matter in a self defence context).

Super, thanks :-)
If you can't do it with a fag or a shot glass in your other hand, it's not a proper judo hold.
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby Genghis » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:00 pm | #29

OneDragons wrote:Sounds like what Judo call osoto otoshi. Its taught before osoto gari. Good technique but less powerfull than the gari version.


Like this presumably?

http://britishjudoeducation.org.uk/red/o-soto-otoshi/

Interesting, but I'd make one of my students uke all evening for doing it that way.  Firstly that much leaning over is just asking to be pulled onto the ground, and secondly the firmly planted foot straight on the ground provides no useful sweeping action, third although you wouldn't do that in Judo I suspect, a forearm firmly up under the chin would aid the throw massively.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Re: Top 5 throws

Postby nry » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:18 pm | #30

Ko soto gari, if done ignoring the judo-esque methods commonly taught, is a cracking throw providing the entry lets you do it :)  If not then something else...

I have a current favourite but I am unsure of the name at present, I'll try to find out what it's called!
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