UK Combat Academy

There is life beyond Jiu Jitsu, we just don't like to talk about it too much

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Postby Genghis » Sat May 27, 2006 10:22 am | #16

I think that I shall go and find out if they'll let me - not to be honest that I've the time at the moment to engage in fringe activities like kickboxing, but some high level (my terminology) Kempo Jiu Jitsu would do me good at the moment.

G
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Postby Splinter » Tue May 30, 2006 7:53 am | #17

if you delve deeper into thier web site you will find that they do say the jiu jitsu is from WJJF , they also give very clear breakdonw (by venue and day/time) which sessins are kick boxing and which are self defence.
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Postby Genghis » Tue May 30, 2006 8:11 am | #18

On which vein, I phoned the sensei of the club I'd looked in on and had a chat.

He was happy for me to come and train with his senior grades (he's a second dan himself but defined senior students as blue/brown) subject to his getting a chance to satisfy himself that I was safe/dangerous enough to do so.  He suggested that he did this by coming and watching my club for a session, which he did on Sunday.  We spent half an hour chatting afterwards - nice fellow, very open.  The general upshot was (a) they do a modernish Jiu Jitsu with proper strikes, although (b) they do nothing in in Japanese, and (c) they know a few PPs but aren't at-all systematic and didn't know that they have names.  From what he said, some clubs tend to be mostly KB, others mostly JJ - his is mostly JJ particularly as they're practicing for a grading at the moment.

M25 permitting (I have to visit Kent on that day) I shall go and train with them on Thursday, I feel pretty good about this bunch.  Albeit in a proper set of white pyjamas!

I shall report back - in any case it's time I got beaten up by proper senior grades again, rather than my own white/yellow belts. Okay, I do Aikido as well - but they know even less about how to hit people properly than most Jitsuka.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Postby Genghis » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:45 am | #19

Yesterday I went along for my first session with these fellows, and enjoyed myself enormously.

Session started with a conventional warm-up and a bit of a gentle workout.  Then the class was split into juniors and seniors.  Juniors then spent the rest of the session being taught some kind of blocks and locks (I didn't pay that much attention, was busy), seniors what they termed randori.

The basic drill was with a dan grade supervising, one person (of half a dozen seniors in the dojo) went up the front and adopted a defensive stance.  Then we took it in turns to attack, each time being instructed by the supervising dan grade what attack to use.  Parts of this impressed me, parts verged on the surreal!

Attacking with roundhouse punches and grabs, these chaps had a really fluent set of techniques (although interestingly, the more junior grades seemed to have a wider repertoire, whilst the more senior grades seemed to have only a small number of techniques but were pretty good at them).  Attacks were roundhouse punch, overhead strike, and a series of grabs and strangles (surprisingly no straight punches).

Then the dan grade went up front and asked me for a random attack.  So, I stepped up and delivered a leisurely snap kick to his groin.  Since he didn't seem to be doing anything about it, I stopped my foot a few microns from his nuts - which he just looked at.  "Hmm", I thought, "something not quite right here".  He politely explained that it was normal to say what your attack would be.  So, I stepped back, bowed, said "Mae geri", and repeated the performance - so did he, with the added query "err, what's that in English".  I stepped back, said "snap kick to the groin", and for a third time delivered a kick which stopped a couple of microns short of his nuts, which he thought about for a few seconds, then finally deflected with Gedan Barai, turned into an ankle trap, threw me on my face, dropped and applied a moderately effective leg-lock.

There were a few other instances similar.  All a little odd - coming as I do from a background that expects you to (learn how to) read attacks, and respond without any warning, and also one that knows it's technique names in Japanese.  Oh yes, we kick in Kempo too!

Notwithstanding this rather critical view, I'll be going back, and enjoyed myself a lot.  Why...

- These chaps can actually take anything I did to them, very cheerfully, which is great.
- They also didn't act at-all offended by my introducing PP techniques into my own methods.
- It was good exercise.
- Their own techniques, once finally applied were fluent and effective, which it was very good for me to be subjected to.  (Breakfalling actually took some effort, unlike in, say, the Aikido classes I attend where you generally have 5 minutes of air-time then hit the ground very gently).
- It's only just down the road, and I can go straight from their dojo to join my parents in the pub-quiz over the road.
- In particular their actual throwing, locking and breakfalling components were excellent.
- They were all thoroughly nice chaps.

But summarising my criticisms of the style:

- They don't know how to predict an attack, even at dan grade.
- They don't know how to handle kicks, nor apparently straight punches!!!!
- Does it really hurt to give techniques their original names in Japanese? (as well, if not necessarily instead).
- They don't know anything about pressure points (but I could level that criticism at most Jiu Jitsu styles).
- Very silly looking gis.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Postby Nazareth » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:42 am | #20

So will you be training with them on an ongoing basis?
"We do not stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing."
George Bernard Shaw

"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
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Postby Splinter » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:23 pm | #21

Genghis wrote:.......- They don't know how to predict an attack, even at dan grade.
- They don't know how to handle kicks, nor apparently straight punches!!!!
- Does it really hurt to give techniques their original names in Japanese? (as well, if not necessarily instead).
- They don't know anything about pressure points (but I could level that criticism at most Jiu Jitsu styles).
- Very silly looking gis.

G


Interesting I made similar conclusion just from the website (including the fact they seem open and friendly)  except the straight punch thing.  its something youd only really encounter though from another martial artist and they do say its self defence using ju jitsu not actually ju jitsu.  although self defence where you state the attack is a bit ...wrong.
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Postby Genghis » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:12 pm | #22

Nazareth wrote:So will you be training with them on an ongoing basis?


Well, for a few months anyhow.  I suspect that I may have to curtail my MA a bit come September as work ramps up again.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Postby Nazareth » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:08 pm | #23

Splinter wrote:Interesting I made similar conclusion just from the website (including the fact they seem open and friendly)  except the straight punch thing.  its something youd only really encounter though from another martial artist and they do say its self defence using ju jitsu not actually ju jitsu.  although self defence where you state the attack is a bit ...wrong.


Well, you never know...

:x "Oi, you spilt my pint and I'm gonna kick you silly!"

:thinking: "Hang on, is that a front snap kick or a roundhouse you'll be using?"
"We do not stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing."
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
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Postby Genghis » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:22 pm | #24

Apparently Yoko Geri Kekomi is the wrong answer as well!  :lol:

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Postby kempo-kid » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:00 pm | #25

Hmmm G in your grading soon you wont be told the attack, it'll just kinda of happen in a whirlwind flurry of strikes and kicks :lol:

KK :twisted:
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Postby Genghis » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:18 pm | #26

kempo-kid wrote:Hmmm G in your grading soon you wont be told the attack, it'll just kinda of happen in a whirlwind flurry of strikes and kicks :lol:

KK :twisted:


I thought that was just the warmup?

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Postby bluechargeboy » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:54 pm | #27

Watch out for that X-block against baton on page 14, suggest you wear your cycling helmet for that lesson.

Also the stances look appalling and don't stack up with the accompanying text, but then again I am just being an armchair critic now...  :wink:
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Postby cullion » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:58 pm | #28

Genghis wrote:- These chaps can actually take anything I did to them, very cheerfully, which is great.


I bet they gradually try and introduce you to a 'traditional etiquette' where you only give them what they say you are supposed to give them. Politely and gradually, no doubt, but I bet they attempt to gradually get you used to the idea that it's 'rude' or 'thuggish' not to politely announce your attack first and then deliver it in a highly telegraphed way.

From first report, it sounds like they are teaching courses in stunt choreography rather than unarmed fighting.
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Postby Genghis » Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:53 am | #29

cullion wrote:
Genghis wrote:- These chaps can actually take anything I did to them, very cheerfully, which is great.


I bet they gradually try and introduce you to a 'traditional etiquette' where you only give them what they say you are supposed to give them. Politely and gradually, no doubt, but I bet they attempt to gradually get you used to the idea that it's 'rude' or 'thuggish' not to politely announce your attack first and then deliver it in a highly telegraphed way.

From first report, it sounds like they are teaching courses in stunt choreography rather than unarmed fighting.


Ah, but I'm not worried about their training benefit, I'm worried about mine.  The seem perfectly happy when attacking for me that I respond with my own approach - so long as I don't actually break them.


Watch out for that X-block against baton on page 14, suggest you wear your cycling helmet for that lesson.

Also the stances look appalling and don't stack up with the accompanying text, but then again I am just being an armchair critic now...


I'd already concluded that much of their weapons work was a bit shakey.  I was asked to do a random batton attack against the previously mentioned dan grade - so (having some moderate eskrima training, and they'd been stupid enough to put a standard 29" Tiger Cane in my hands!) I aimed a standard second (?) angle attack at the side of his knee.  Took 3 goes before he managed to unload the "does not compute" program and respond  :D

And the stances in real life seem to be for the observance of juniors and the guidance of senior adults.  Much like many other styles.



Anyhow, as I said, it's fun, but I'm not about to turn from the path of the violent and rightious.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Postby cullion » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:22 pm | #30

Genghis wrote:Ah, but I'm not worried about their training benefit, I'm worried about mine.  The seem perfectly happy when attacking for me that I respond with my own approach - so long as I don't actually break them.


Yeah but when they attack, they're attacking you with an announced highly telegraphed attack, surely you'd be better off training with people who pushed you properly ?
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