ouch!!!

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ouch!!!

Postby nagewazawill » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:23 am | #1

dont know if you seen the fight but OUCH!!!


http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Frank_M ... 20&tid=100
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby OneDragons » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:07 pm | #2

Good fight, some good grappling.

Though I never like to see injuries via submissions, can't quite tell if he tapped before the arm went or not.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby captaintau » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:47 pm | #3

OneDragons wrote:Though I never like to see injuries via submissions, can't quite tell if he tapped before the arm went or not.

I don't think he did. I think he was still trying to improve position right up to the end.

And after this fight, Machida fell unconscious from a standing choke without tapping. I know it's easy for me as an amateur to say but the "tap mentality" needs to re-learned.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby nagewazawill » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:10 pm | #4

agreed ct , but these two fighters whuch we have talked about are some of the best on the planet ( in a cage ) Big nog didnt tap untill it was broke. If i knew how to put pics up id have put 1 of an xray of nogs arm! you would like that CT  :)
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby BrassMan » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:21 pm | #5

Not nice, but it's a risky game and they are there to win. Even at noob level, you will try and salvage situations which would have you tapping out in a regular session.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby OneDragons » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:44 pm | #6

I'm not that surprised Nog would not tap. I think it's more the old school fighting mentality in the main where this comes from. Most of the newer fighters realise a serious injury doesn't just mean a loss which they can make up for later but could be career altering!

Suppose it depends on your approach to the game.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby captaintau » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:50 am | #7

nagewazawill wrote:If i knew how to put pics up id have put 1 of an xray of nogs arm!

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You mean like this  :D


Spiral fracture of the distal third of humerus. Impressive. Actually I'm surprised that the olecranon didn't dislocate first. It shows how strong his connective tissues are.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby nagewazawill » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:44 am | #8

yeh!!!!!!!!!!! That is the same pic i got. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm , how do u post pics????
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby captaintau » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:29 am | #9

nagewazawill wrote:yeh!!!!!!!!!!! That is the same pic i got. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm , how do u post pics????

On this occasion what I did was
- Right click on the picture. Select properties. Highlight the URL of the picture, ensuring that is the image and not a web page
- Copy that URL
- Back to [ PJ ]
- Paste the URL into the text window
- Highlight the URL and select the "Img" button above the text window. The URL is then proceeded by "img" and followed by "/img" in square brackets.
- Robert is your father's brother
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby ToffeeApple » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:08 pm | #10

captaintau wrote:And after this fight, Machida fell unconscious from a standing choke without tapping. I know it's easy for me as an amateur to say but the "tap mentality" needs to re-learned.

Not tapping to a choke is different to not tapping to a joint lock.

OneDragons wrote:...newer fighters realise a serious injury doesn't just mean a loss which they can make up for later but could be career altering!

True, Saku's famous victims weren't kidding anybody with their protestations at referee stoppage.  I used to think Jacare was an idiot when he allowed his arm to break and continued, but looking back that injury (and the win) is one of the foundations of his career.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby OneDragons » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:58 pm | #11

Always thought that lock would dislocate the shoulder rather than break the humerus.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby ToffeeApple » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:24 pm | #12

I guess it depends on where the pressure is.  He was obviously defending and must have been doing a fairly good job at keeping his shoulder locked.  Mir also snapped Sylvia's forearm.

*edit* Also, Kimura described feeling Gracie's arm breaking in two places.  Other fighters who have been stopped by kimuras appear to have their elbows dislocate first.  I've popped people's elbows before... not on purpose you understand, but sometimes these things happen.   Last time it happened was the worst - he tapped and it popped just at the same time, (twas actually backwards*, jodan udegarami, americana) when I saw him at a show a few weeks later his arm was purple. :?

Of course some guys have flexible shoulders, or they are unable to hold the arm close.  See: just about any sub 65kg guy who's above average height, Aoki vs Hirota.  I really couldn't say whether both the albow and the shoulder got dislocated, or both...  It is just so gruesome.  I'll post it anyway.





* *edit2*  Actually, it might have been a kimura.  Thinking back, it was a very hot day and it really could have been either.
Last edited by ToffeeApple on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby captaintau » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:31 pm | #13

OneDragons wrote:Always thought that lock would dislocate the shoulder rather than break the humerus.

No. In this case with a lock on the right arm, Mir is pulling down with his right arm in contact with the humerus. He has isolated the elbow joint, which is what I expected to dislocate. I suspect that in any of us this is what would happen. That bone has fractured here shows the strength of Nog's ligaments. That lock when performed differently could theoretically dislocate the shoulder, but not the way that Mir did it
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby OneDragons » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:02 am | #14

Looking at the two videos posted has been quite educational for me. The Mir fight injury is definitely the forearm that broke (you can't argue with an x-ray), the second video shows an injury that isclearly either the forearm or the elbow that gave way.

As I said previously I've always seen a figure 4 armlock style attack as acting on the shoulder, it seems that it can certainly be applied to attack the elbow instead.

I have never liked the americana lock attacking the shoulder. I can submit low level grapplers easily but high level fighters can escape due to space being created by me to allow the force to act on the shoulder, maybe I need to rethink the way I use the lock.

It is not often that threads on [ pj ] make me rethink the way I do things these days so a thank you from me to all involved in this thread, I think I need to find some volunteers to play round with this. Obviously I am not looking to break anyone but do want to get some real time feedback on varying these techniques.
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Re: ouch!!!

Postby captaintau » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:48 am | #15

OneDragons wrote:It is not often that threads on [ pj ] make me rethink the way I do things these days so a thank you from me to all involved in this thread, I think I need to find some volunteers to play round with this. Obviously I am not looking to break anyone but do want to get some real time feedback on varying these techniques.

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