New light on Kempo?

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New light on Kempo?

Postby OneDragons » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:54 am | #1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C9cEWmiL08&feature=plcp

Since I know there are a few Kempo guys around, thought you should be warned!
The many within One!

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Greek Proverb "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby Genghis » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:03 am | #2

Ah, but that was kenpo!

The bit about hitting yourself is, surprisingly enough, accurate.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby nry » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:13 pm | #3

What's the hitting yourself thing all about?
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby Genghis » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:11 am | #4

The latest and most interesting new development in Kenpo Karate is something called "sub level 7" (not sure what happened to levels 1 to 6 - I think that it's just a name).  SL7 has been developing techniques where by striking points on your own body whilst performing techniques you can temporarily increase the energy available in bits of the body.  So, you can increase the power of strikes, make the body more stable for a few seconds to make it harder to throw you, and so-on.

I'm not sure that I quite buy into the theory that the SL7 people are using to justify it, but dammit it works.  I've been incorporating bits of it into my Kempo Jiu Jitsu, and it certainly has value, although drilling this into JJ techniques is a lot of work, and not very intuitive.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby nry » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:49 am | #5

Ahh, physics again.  Explains anything I can find relating to 'internal energy' and 'chi' :)

Google suggests sub levels exist below 7 too, some of them appear to be trademarked.  Excellent!
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby Genghis » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:12 pm | #6

Actually it's by and large the physics that I don't agree with.

Chi theory is technically nonsense, but it does provide a convenient shorthand for some complex biological / nerve control processes.  Personally I think that the effects are biological / nervous rather than newtonian physics as such, so they do lend themselves to description in TCM terms.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby nry » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:37 pm | #7

I've only really been shown a few 'Chi' things in the first JJ style I trained in years ago - maybe it differs, but it was 'stuff' like balancing on two legs of a chair by focusing your Chi down your back and down the chair legs...then the 'Can't bend my arm' thing, where you put your arm out and rest the back of your hand on the shoulder of someone who then tries to bend your arm - unless you change the way you keep your arm straight, most people can bend the arm...all about 'correct' use of muscles etc. which so far as I can tell, boils down to physics.
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby Genghis » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:28 pm | #8

SL7 has some interesting points.

For example, stamp down on your heel, and the body goes into a form of directional lock because it thinks you were about to skip into a sudden run.  This has value when trying to push, project a punch from a solid base, or not be pushed.  I find it makes for a much more powerful throw in ude-kime-nage (what Aikido call Ikkyo).

For reasons that are hard to understand except by some form of nerve-biomechanics a strike to the base of one's own shoulder has a marked and repeatable effect - for a few seconds, on the corresponding arm.  So that is useable when trying to make a powerful punch from a static body position.

TCM terminology also is regularly used to explain the benefits of a ki-ai, which we all know and use.  It's not the only way to explain it, and scientifically cobblers, but nonetheless self-consistent and useful.

Glad to demonstrate if we can meet in a dojo some place and time.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby nry » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:08 am | #9

Whilst we don't call it SL7, the concept of where power comes from (i.e. the thing you describe as a stamp down on the heel) is certainly something MHYR teaches.  That type of power generation carries with any technique, be it a strike or a throw etc. and is within the awareness of strong line/weak line mechanics too.
Last edited by nry on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby Genghis » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:58 pm | #10

There's little new under the sun!  Kenpo Karate choose to brand that package of knowledge as SL7 and to be fair, what you'll get if you go to a Kevin Mills seminar in the UK, or presumably somebody else's elsewhere, is an impressive set of stuff that works well in their karate and I'm having fun trying to incorporate into my Kempo Jiu Jitsu.

It's like, say, Small Circle Jiu Jitsu.  In one place it's branded as a style, in my club it's a family of techniques within our syllabus, and in some styles it's just "some stuff we do".

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby nry » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:12 pm | #11

Yep - some people just like to give things special names :)
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby Genghis » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:06 pm | #12

Well most stuff has names.

I tend to divide small circle from wide circle throws, for example, because they rely on different chunks of knowledge.  Similarly most of us would, say, be happy to regard hip throws and sweeping throws as different families of techniques.

Similarly what some people think is a complete art (say, Judo or Karate) most of us regard as a subset of a whole and like to add striking, throwing, grappling, etc. together into a single art, but with groups of techniques.

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby captaintau » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:53 pm | #13

What G's talking about here isn't new. Warriors Eskrima includes Panatukan (Filipino boxing) as part of the syllabus. I recently met a chap who had studied the Martial Art of Panatukan.

In Karate, not so long ago a single kata or family of kata were the entire art. Anko Itosu intended the five Heian kata to be a complete fighting art. Equally so Kushanku, Naihanchi and Gankaku record entire systems. Most styles (ignore Kyokushinkai and Goju Ryu as they are different branches) practice all of them now!
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Re: New light on Kempo?

Postby Genghis » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:55 pm | #14

Very quick correction - the stuff I've done is SL4 not SL7 (as I was reminded doing a seminar on it today).

G
Wrestle well, skillfully wield spear, sword, and dagger in a manly way.  Strike true and hard and rush in - those who understand this will despise the one who defends.  (Sigmund Ringeck, C15)

http://www.buckskempo.org.uk/
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