Phase 2 - Nage No Kata

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Phase 2 - Nage No Kata

Postby bigjocky » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:03 pm | #1

This sunday 4th March Sensei Mark Browne Nidan will be teaching phase 2 of the Nage no kata at Swansea University club. The course will be run from 12 - 5pm. It is expected that all grades of blue and above should attend this course especially those that are intending on grading soon. The NNK is playing a bigger and bigger role within our style and the sooner you begin to learn it the better you will be. See you Sunday!!
Always make an excuse to train rather than have an excuse not to train!!!
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Postby Nicko » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:41 pm | #2

For sure - please come along to this, the poor attendance at the last course was very annoying considering the importance of NNK nowadays and the fact that we'd organised a course especially for it. Given that this course is being taught by an instructor from outside the region a high turnout by the higher grades is going to be crucial - crash space is available if you need it  :)
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Postby Splinter » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:53 pm | #3

"But I do Jitsu not Judo, I dont want / need to do NNK"

If Ive heard it once Ive heard it 50 time, often from senior grades / even instructors.  Take your head out of your backside and attend the course.

Its NOT about doing some robotic display invented by silly old japanese men.  Its a tool (and a very effective tool) at helping everyone (regardless of thier level) move to a greater understanding of how throwing techniques work.

Try the course, practise the course, THEN and only then can you say it isnt worth it.
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Postby Ikantski » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:08 am | #4

This thread got me to go out and try to find what Kano thought of kata but thankfully somebody else had already been inspired.  http://www.judoinfo.com/kata.htm

It is also significant that you know that Jigoro Kano thought highly of nage and katame no kata and referred to them under the combined title of randori no kata. His insistence on this term should tell you immediately that they are inseparably linked to randori. The founder thought of these two kata as the basic foundations to every Judoist's skill -- fundamental building blocks by which a Judoist might develop his techniques as broadly as possible. He expected all Judoists to make a regular study of kata.
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Postby Nazareth » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:16 am | #5

Splinter wrote:Try the course, practise the course, THEN and only then can you say it isnt worth it.
Like the optimism :lol:

Ikantski - I think what TJF needs is more randori and 'aliveness' though... in a way, most of our throwing is practised in quite a stylised manner!

And there's the whole issue of some throws being done in a different ('judo' or 'NNK') way to how they're normally practised - does that mean we're practising them wrong?
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Postby rose_red » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:57 am | #6

Dam what bad timing, I like NNK courses and Ive never done phase two before but its the day after I get back.

I'm not sure jet lag jitsu is such a good idea!
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Postby Splinter » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:07 pm | #7

Nazareth wrote: And there's the whole issue of some throws being done in a different ('judo' or 'NNK') way to how they're normally practised - does that mean we're practising them wrong?

throwing in NNk is totally stylised but what it does is forces you to break the throw down to very simple elements before putting back together and working better
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Postby Poogle » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:16 pm | #8

What is 'wrong' anyway?

It depends on the purpose of the technique, and when it is intended to be used.

If the purpose of the technique is to make you understand throwing better, and Naz goes to a course and does not feel enlightened, is the technique still valid given that it is not serving its purpose? If I go to a breakfalling course and after the course my breakfalling still sucks*, is there any point to practising breakfalling? Or do I just need to go to more courses?

If a man speaks in a forest, and no women are around to hear him, is he still wrong?

*This is purely hypothetical. I know my breakfalling does not suck.
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Postby Random Guy » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:24 pm | #9

Poogle wrote:If a man speaks in a forest, and no women are around to hear him, is he still wrong?
No, because there's no-one there to misinterpret what the man says and be mad at him for no apparent reason, refusing to explain why she's mad and generally being an idiot.

But the rest of the points were valid! :D
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Postby Kermit » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:21 pm | #10

Random Guy wrote:
Poogle wrote:If a man speaks in a forest, and no women are around to hear him, is he still wrong?
No, because there's no-one there to misinterpret what the man says and be mad at him for no apparent reason, refusing to explain why she's mad and generally being an idiot.

But the rest of the points were valid! :D


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Postby Poogle » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:28 pm | #11

Random Guy wrote:
Poogle wrote:If a man speaks in a forest, and no women are around to hear him, is he still wrong?
No, because there's no-one there to misinterpret what the man says and be mad at him for no apparent reason, refusing to explain why she's mad and generally being an idiot.

But the rest of the points were valid! :D


You were still wrong, even before I'd read your answer.

Interestingly, the 'What is 'wrong', anyway?' is a quote from my quantum physics tutor.

(You're in a 'wrong' eigenstate. And no one's going to measure you in any basis other than the right/wrong basis. If fact, no one needs to measure you at all, because you're a man, and we already know what state you're in (WRONG). There is no decoherence in this system. There might be a small amount of incoherence in mine tho,)
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Postby Nazareth » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:38 pm | #12

Poogle wrote:You were still wrong, even before I'd read your answer.

Interestingly, the 'What is 'wrong', anyway?' is a quote from my quantum physics tutor.

(You're in a 'wrong' eigenstate. And no one's going to measure you in any basis other than the right/wrong basis. If fact, no one needs to measure you at all, because you're a man, and we already know what state you're in (WRONG). There is no decoherence in this system. There might be a small amount of incoherence in mine tho,)


Or a large amount of delusion :P
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Postby Ikantski » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:35 pm | #13

Nazareth wrote:Ikantski - I think what TJF needs is more randori and 'aliveness' though... in a way, most of our throwing is practised in quite a stylised manner!

And there's the whole issue of some throws being done in a different ('judo' or 'NNK') way to how they're normally practised - does that mean we're practising them wrong?


Nazareth, I don't think TJF can really be brought to life.  In terms of aliveness, it's a mix of safe techniques that could be practiced with timing, energy and motion (throws, groundwork, standup with pads) and a lot that would definitely lead to injury or prove completely ineffective in an alive environment against a larger opponent (wristlocks, dangerous parts, headlocks, leglocks, standing armlocks).

There'd be two problems if they started spending more time on the throwing/groundwork game.  The first is that most pure TJF instructors don't have very much experience with it.  The second is that it's really fun and students might lose interest in the stuff that can't be practiced compliantly.

I think TJF deals with manipulating drunk people and people weaker than yourself really well.  If that's what you intend to do with your throwing skills than you're practicing it just fine.  If you want your skills to be applicable to a sober, larger, stronger, angry person, you may want a training environment closer to the real thing.
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Postby Ikantski » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:41 pm | #14

Another thought I had about NNK:  After you learn it, it's just reps.  Kano wanted to make sure judoka had a wide base of throws.  The idea behind the kata is just to rep out your throws and build up those neural connections.  Then, when you're doing randori, you can concentrate on grips and footwork instead of the mechanics of the throw.  

Then when someone challenges you to a judo match on the street, you can concentrate on the situation and your footwork and throws should be automatic.
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Postby Daftbugger » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 pm | #15

rose_red wrote:Dam what bad timing, I like NNK courses and Ive never done phase two before but its the day after I get back.

I'm not sure jet lag jitsu is such a good idea!

:ot: I know from experience, not to go to the hair dressers when severely jet lagged...
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